Spain, is it in its origin a Venetic name?
Euskadi (Baskija)
Commentar ...Recentment el professor Jozko Savli - Miguel Solè
Tiene el nombre de España un origen Veneto?

   España - (Spain), tierra creada por mi?
   Veneti - update about the linden tree, the word "carant" and the name Spane
by Carlos Camino - October 15, 2003
Dr. Savli's comment - October 16, 2003

   Coincidences found in different Spanish cultures and folklore
by Carlos Camino - July 25, 2003
Dr. Savli's comment - July 26, 2003

  
Spain
is it in its origin a Venetic name?

View of the Spanish province La Mancha with its characteristic "plain"
Dr. Jožko Šavli

In my search for Venetic (Vendic) place names and their meaning, which can be identified on hand of modern Slovenian, I also came across the name Piano di Spagna, north of the well-known Italian lake Lago di Como, not far from Milan. It denotes flatland close to the lake, where the Adda River has its outflow. I knew that the name was not of Italian origin. Indeed, the etymon Spagna (Spain), in its modern meaning, cannot be referred to this place. Since there are many "Slovenian" (Venetic) names in this area, I suppose the name Piano di Spagna is probably also of Venetic origin. But I could not compare it with a Slovenian parallel, as to explain its meaning.

It was a pure coincidence that I previously had made a registration of micro toponyms in the area of my native village close to Tolmin, in the upper Soca (Isonzo) basin of Slovenia. One of those toponyms has the form Špane (pl.). It describes a small piece of gentle, nearly plain superficies, found in the middle of the steep slope of Mt. Vodel. From the morphology of superficies I can only conclude, that the name Špane has to be a dialectal form of Splane, composed of the basic etymon plan (plain) and the s-preformative, which in Slovenian still means a completed state or situation.

Thus, Piano di Spagna, denoting a plain superficies at the outflow of the Adda River into Lake Como, could only be explained by the Venetic dialectal form Špane (in origin Splane). The etymon "Spagna" deriving from the dialectal form Špane, bears witness, that the Venetic language already in the pre-Roman period was differentiated by dialects. Later, when the Latin or Roman (Italian) language prevailed, this name was not comprehensible any more, and the Italian etymon Piano was added, having the same meaning.
In Slovenia one can find other names of such form. But the Italian word Spagna means also Spain. Are there any connections between Spagna (Splane) and Spain  (España)? From the morphologic point of view, I had established, that the Pyrenees Peninsula is composed of several plains, particularly Castile. If it would concern only the word "plains", the name Spain (España) would be explainable also in other languages, in which the word "plain" appears. But the s-preformative is only to be found in Slovenian, which is considered the modern Venetic language.  
Indeed, it seems that a current of our Venetic predecessors, who were the bearers of the famous Urnfield culture (after 1200 BC), reached the Pyrenees Peninsula, too, to which they left their name denoting the plains, and this name has been preserved until today.
  
Euskadi (Baskija)


Prapor Baskije s prvotnim grbom. Njegov cetrti del (zlata veriga na rdecem), ki predstavlja Navarro, so morali kasneje po sklepu Ustavneg sodišca umakniti.

Luka Lisjak Gabrijelcic

Španska avtonomna dežela Euskadi, kot Baski imenujejo svojo domovino, je sestavljena iz treh tradicionalnih pokrajin; cetrta in najvecja, Navarra (Nafarroa po baskovsko), pa je sama svoja avtonomna dežela, upravno locena od ostalih. Baskovski nacionalisti bi seveda radi videli, da bi ves njihov narod v Španiji bil politicno združen v eni sami avtonomni deželi, zato se zavzemajo za prikljucitev Navarre k ostali Baskiji. Res je sicer, da je navarsko prebivalstvo v glavnem baskovskega izvora (o tem pricajo že njihovi priimki), a vecina Navarre je že vrsto stoletij povsem hispanizirana: dandanes govori baskovsko le še slaba cetrtina Navarre na goratem podrocju ob meji z Baskijo, severozahodno od prestolnice Pamplone (Iruña po baskovsko), ki leži prav na jezikovni meji.

Vecina prebivalcev Navarre ostro nasprotuje združitvi z Baskijo, saj se bojijo, da bi takšno združeno deželo obvladovali baskovski nacionalisti. Kljub temu se Baski Navarri nocejo odpovedati: ne le, ker tam živi številcno velik del njihovih sonarodnjakov, Navarra ima za Baske iz zgodovinskih razlogov prav poseben pomen. V srednjem veku je bila samostojna kraljevina, edina neodvisna politicna tvorba v zgodovini baskovskega naroda: ceprav so ji vladali špansko govoreci plemici, je njena ureditev temeljila na starodavnem izrocilu baskovske obcinske samouprave in euskera (baskovski jezik) je navarskim kraljem služil kot protokolarni jezik, s katerim so poudarjali svojo neodvisnost nasproti Franciji in Kastiliji; Baski zato v njej upravicno vidijo zgodovino svoje države.

Baski imajo svojo narodno zastavo, ki je nastala v casu nacionalnega preporoda v 19. stoletju, svojega zgodovinskega grba pa nimajo. Njihova vlada je zato pred dvema desetletjema sprejela nov grb, ki je sestavljen iz štirih polj: v vsakem je grb ene izmed baskovskih tradicionalnih pokrajin; tudi Navarre. In tu je nastal spor, ki traja še danes. Navarska vlada se je pritožila na špansko Ustavno sodišce, ceš da Baskija neupraviceno uporablja njene simbole. Sodišce je razsodilo, da mora baskovska vlada iz štiridelnega grba umakniti navarski simbol. Ta je odlocitev seveda morala upoštevati: navarski grb je sicer umaknila, a ga z nicemer ni nadomestila. Baskovski grb je ostal štiridelen, le èetrti del je prazen: na njem je zgolj rdeca barva brez rumenega navarskega grba. Sporocilo baskovskih domoljubov je jasno: grb je simbol baskovskega naroda, cigar združitev še ni koncana; cetrti del še manjka.

Morda se komu to zdi le nesmiselno poigravanje: a simboli so pomembni in Baski se tega še kako zavedajo. Morda jih je zato naš Kocbek tako zelo obcudoval. Ko je nekoc primerjal visoko eticno in politicno zavest, ki jo o svoji samobitnosti in neodvisnosti imajo Baski in Irci, s slovensko brezbrižnostjo, je iz bridkosti v svojo beležko zapisal opazko, da »smo Slovenci cigani«. Od kod tako skrajna sodba? Kocbek morda res ni bil kakšen politicen talent in tudi razloge za takšen odnos Slovencev do svoje nacionalne substance je najbrž napacno ocenil (in za njihovo odpravo predpisoval povsem napacne recepte), a njegova poeticna duša je bila pravi seizmograf; tudi v tem primeru je vendarle zaznal tisto temno dno resnice, ki ga je videl (kot je sam pravil) »skozi lino svoje groze«.

Pomislimo, kakšen odnos imamo mi do svojih simbolov. Pomislimo, s kolikšno lahkoto smo duhovno lastništvo nad knežjim kamnom in vojvodskim stolom prepustili Koroški, ki je naša Navarra. Pomislimo, kako smo ravnali v zgodnjih devetdesetih letih: avstrijske oblasti so samo zagodrnjale in že smo umaknili relief knežjega kamna iz bankovcev naše nacionalne valute.

Slovenci imamo samostojno državo in Baski nam to zavidajo. Mi pa bi njim morali zavidati nekaj drugega: oni, ceprav države (še) nimajo, dobro vedo, kako gre ravnati z njo in njenimi simboli. In ce bi državo imeli, bi jo najbrž bolj spoštovali kot mi.
  
Commentar ...Recentment el professor Jozko Savli
Miguel Solè, VilaWeb - Barcelona (Catalonia)
... Recentment el professor Jozko Savli ha aportat topònims de la zona d'Eslovènia i el Véneto italià per demostra com el nom d'Espanya prove de l'arrel "Spane", que denota superfícies planes entre muntanyes. Els Venetos hauríen aconseguit la península en temps anteriors als celtes (contemporànis i fins i tot emparentats amb els ligurs? per la qual cosa haurien deixat aquets nom als successius invasors. La clau rau en considerar els eslovens com a descendents directes dels venetos i fins i tot etruscos, tots ells protoeslaus, per la qual cosa la seva llengua seria ideal per desxifrar l'origen de molts significats avui oblidar. Emparentat amb la teoria "veneta", en l'idioma mecedoni (que alguns consideren també protoeslau) existeix el vocable "spaan", que significa "somni" (en anglès "span" com l'espai entre dos punts i fins i tot la veu alemanya antiga "spanna") doncs bé, si considerem el somni com el perídoe entre dues vigílies, tenim el paral·lelisme amb la morfologia toponímica de Spane com planura entre muntanyes. A partir d'aqui encara podríem preguntar-nos si Ibèria pot estar emparentada amb el llatí de "Tempus Hibernum", que és hivern, l'estació en què molts animals "hivernen", tornem dons a un període d'activitat "plana" entre dos períodes de major vitalitat...
  
Tiene el nombre de España un origen Veneto?
(Courtesy of  Celtiberia.net v2.0)

En mi búsqueda de nombres de lugares Venetos (Véndicos) y su significado, que pueden ser identificados fácilmente con el Esloveno moderno, me encontré con el nombre de "Piano di Spagna", al norte del archi-conocido italiano "Lago di Como", no lejos de Milan. Indica tierra plana cerca del lago, donde el río Adda tiene su desembocadura. Sabía que el nombre no era de origen italiano. De hecho, en su moderna etimología, Spagna (España) no puede estar refiriéndose a este sitio. Pero como hay muchos nombres "eslovenos" (Venetos) en éste área, supuse que el nombre "Piano di Spagna" era probablemente también de origen Veneto. Pero no pude compararlo con ningún paralelo Sloveno, como para explicar su significado.

Fue por pura casualidad que previamente había estado haciendo un registro de micro-topónimos en el área de mi villa natal cerca de Tolmin, en la alta Soca (Isonzo) de los valles de Eslovenia. Uno de esos topónimos estaba hecho con la forma Spana (pl.). Se describe un pequeño trozo de suave, casi plana superficie, que se encuentra en el medio de la empinada cuesta del Monte Vodel. De esta morfología de superficies pude concluir que, el nombre de Spane tiene que ser una fórmula dialectal de Splane, compuesto de la forma etimológica básica de plan (plano) y la s-preformativa (prefijo), que en Esloveno todavía denota un estado completo o situación acabada.

Así, Piano di Spagna, que significa una superficie plana en la desembocadura del río Adda en el Lago Como, podría solo ser explicado por la forma dialectal Veneta de Spane (originariamente Splane). La etimología de "Spagna" derivaría de la forma dialectal Spane, que se mantiene com testigo, de que la lengua Veneta ya para el período pre-Romano tenia dialectos diferenciados. Más tarde, cuando el latín o el romance (italiano) se hizo hegemónico, el nombre dejó de ser comprensible, y se añadió el nombre Piano, con el mismo significado.

En Eslovenia se pueden encontrar otros no nombres con la misma forma. Pero la palabra italiana Spagna también significa España. ¿Existen conexiones entre Spagna (Splane) y Espagna (España)?. Desde el punto de vista de la geomorfología, la península Ibérica está compuesta por muchas "planicies", particularmente Castilla. Si solo se tratara del vocablo "plana", el nombre de España (Spain) podría ser explicada también en otras lenguas, en la que aparece el vocablo "plana". Pero la s-preformativa solo se encuentra en Eslovenia, que es considerada la lengua moderna de los "Venetos".

De hecho, parece que los Venetos, que eran los portadores de la cultura de los Campos de Urnas (después del 1200 a.C.), llegaron también a la Península Ibérica, en donde nos dejaron su nombre actual que denota lugar con superficies (alti)planas.
  
España
(Spain), tierra creada por mi?

Our article "Spain, is it in its origin a Venetic name?" (by Dr. Jožko Šavli) arouses a certain interest. Its Spanish version was taken over from the website www.todoexpertos.com/herramientas/leermsgpublico. It was accompanied by a very interesting commentary. We publish the text in the original style for our Spanish readers. On this occasion, Dr. Šavli states, that it is not a historical or ethnical but strictly a  linguistic question.

(cf: articles: Spain, is it in its origin a Venetic name? and
Tiene el nombre de España un origen Veneto? (Courtesy of  Celtiberia.net v2.0)

Comúnmente se admite que España viene del latino Hispania y que este nombre se impuso entre los romanos después de un periodo dubitativo entre el "Hispania", de raíz supuestamente fenicia, y el "Iberia" de los griegos.

Profundizando en un origen fenicio del nombre de Hispania, tenemos a la raíz SPN, equivalente a la etimología hebraica SPN (leído saphan, conejo), que da la significación de "Tierra de conejos", amparándose en un texto de Catulo, que había calificado la península de cuniculosa, es decir, "Tierra de abundantes conejos".

Sin embargo, un historiador y hebraísta, Cándido Maria Trigueros, leyó allá por 1767, una pormenorizada disertación en la Real Academia Sevillana de Buenas Letras, con el nombre de "Memoria sobre el nombre de España y el nombre funículos" preguntándose después de citar al menos a trece historiadores antiguos y con textos en cinco alfabetos diferentes, el latín, castellano, celtibero, griego, hebreo y siríaco, como era posible que ninguno de ellos reflejara o supiera que Span significara en las lengua orientales conejo, resumiendo que ni unos ni otros relacionaron el animal con la tierra en que se criaba, porque esta voz oriental no era el nombre de ningún animal, aparte de que mal podían los fenicios tener en su idioma el nombre de un animal que no conocían. La explicación etimológica de Trigueros, se basa en que, como el alfabeto fenicio-hebreo carece de vocales se pueden hacer múltiples combinaciones, tanto en Caldeo como en hebreo bíblico la palabra sphan significa "el aquilon" o " Tierra del norte" y el motivo es significativo en la definición ya que los primeros en desembarcar en nuestras costas y ponerle el nombre, eran gentes que venían del sur o mejor dicho, el nombre de Span fue impuesto por estar al septentrión de las tierras que venían los primeros que nos pusieron el nombre.

El mundo griego denominó a la península "Iberia". Hiberia, para los griegos del siglo IX y VIII a. de c. era la región de Huelva, y el río Hiberus se identificaba con uno de los ríos onubenses. Eso es lo que se deduce la Ora Marítima de Avieno, que dice beber en fuentes antiquísimas griegas, y del Pseudo-Escimno de Chio, fechado en el siglo V a. de C.

Otros defienden una derivación del topónimo "Spal", el más antiguo atribuido a Hispalis, Isbilya o Sevilla: Spal>>Hispalis>>Hispania>>España. Quizás sea la que defiende un origen más autóctono del nombre de España.

Recientemente el profesor Jozko Savli ha aportado topónimos de la zona de Eslovenia y el Véneto italiano para demostrar como el nombre de España proviene de la raíz "Spane", que denota superficies llanas entre montañas. Los Venetos habrían alcanzado la península en tiempos anteriores a los celtas (¿contemporáneos e incluso emparentados a los ligures?) por lo que habrían dejado este nombre a los sucesivos invasores. La clave está en considerar a los eslovenos como descendientes directos de los venetos e incluso etruscos, todos ellos proto-eslavos, por lo que su lengua sería ideal para descifrar el origen de muchos significados hoy olvidados.

Emparentado con la teoría "veneta", en el idioma macedonio (que algunos consideran también proto-eslavo) existe el vocablo "spaan", que significa "sueño",(en inglés "span" como el espacio entre dos puntos e incluso la voz alemana antigua "spanna") pues bien, si consideramos el sueño como el periodo entre dos vigilias, tenemos el paralelismo con la morfología toponímica de Spane como planicie entre montañas. A partir de aquí aún podríamos preguntarnos si Iberia puede estar emparentada con el latín de "Tempus Hibernum", que es el invierno, la estación en que muchos animales "hibernan", volvemos pues a un periodo de actividad "plana" entre dos periodos de mayor vitalidad. A su vez, el nombre histórico de una república del Caúcaso es Ivernia, "la otra Iberia" de la que hablara Herodoto. Pero también Siberia proviene del vocablo Tártaro "tierra del sueño" (y por qué no tierra de hibernación), siendo sus primeros pobladores "míticos" el linaje de Túbal, no en vano uno de sus principales ríos se denomina "Tobol" y su capital histórica, Tobolsk (sk es sufijo ruso que indica "lugar"). Iberia y Euskadi también aparecen primigeniamente habitadas en su origen por Túbal y su descendencia (más toda la historiografía del "tubalismo" existente al respecto).

Por último, pero no menos importante, señalar la explicación Balto-eslava del origen de España como "unión", así tenemos que en checo "unidos" significa "spojeny", precisamente España nace como "unión" de Reinos peninsulares.

Más difícil de explicar es cómo el apóstol San Pablo en su Epístola a los Romanos pretendía visitar "España" (Rom 15,28) antes de que España "naciera" como unión de Reinos.
  
October 15, 2003
Letter from Carlos Camino

Veneti - update about the linden tree, the word "carant" and the name Spane
There is an article from Kurt Baldinger about the Galaico-Portuguese language and its basic relationship with the old Aquitanian language. This text quotes a paragraph from a researcher called Corominas, who points out, that in the north-eastern corner of Catalunya (Ribagorza mountain, region of the Pyrinees etc) can be found the word "carant" from the Urnfield culture, related with the Alpine word "caranto", meaning a torrent of water in a land full of stones, or a dry basin due to such a flood. He also called these invaders from the Urnfield culture with the neologism "sorotaptos", as he is not sure whether they are Ligurians, Venetos or Illirians, but could find traces of these settlers with a very archaic form of Indo-European language.
In relation with the recent article published by Dr. Jozko Savli on the subject "Spain, is it in its origin a Venetic name", he gave the idea of "Spagna" deriving from the dialectal form Špane. Without knowing each other, the Basque-Iberist writer Jesús Bergua in his book "El bilingüe de Azaila. Esbozo de Gramática ibérica" (1994), also reports on page 105 that "the natives called their country SPANE" and is referring to this word several times, according to the Basque researcher Karmele Artexte. (We had to shorten the letter-article and kindly ask for your understanding)

The arms of the Gipuzkoa province with three liden-trees, from 1513.
  
Dr. Šavli's comments: Many thanks for so much information. Thus, it is almost certain, that a migration wave of the ancient Veneti reached the Iberian Peninsula, too. I think, these Veneti could only have been the more or less "mysterious" Ligurians, a pre-Celtic people, which many researchers run into. Their Venetic origin could also be confirmed by the fact, that in the same Liguria (Italy) Venetic names appear, the meaning of which can be explained on hand of the Slovenian language (the modern Venetic). Traces of the presence of linden-trees, the tree of life of the ancient Veneti, found in the arms of the Guipuzkoa province, is an ulterior indication of the one-time settlement of this people in Spain, in the pre-Celtic period. Not at last, the same name of Spain, in origin Spane (pl.), meaning the characteristic Spanish plains, seems to be referred to the Veneti.
At this occasion, I want to point out several inscriptions in Venetic script, quoted by the well-known linguist Charles Bryant-Abraham (cf. Journal of Ancient and Medieval Studies XVII: 2001). He quotes as the source the article of Julio Caro-Baroja "La Escritura en la España Preromana", published in La España Primitiva (Vol. II, La Protohistoria, by Martin Almagro Basch and Antonio García y Bellido, pp. 685 ff.). Charles Bryant-Abraham mentions, among other things, the runic (Venetic) alphabet of Tartessos, the Biblical "Tarshish", and states: Notable is the horizontal and vertical reversal of a number of these runes, yet all in still remain unmistakely Venetic... (p. 89).
Apart from this, I think, that some names of towns in Spain could be explained with help of the Venetic vocabulary, still found in a great measure in Slovenian. I am quoting some examples, first the name Toledo, which descends from the Roman Toletum (Livius XXXV, 7). In Baedeker (Espagne & Portugal, 1920, p. 131) I found the explanation "ville petite, mais forte par sa situation", which is obviously an invention. Its geographical position in the Tajo Valley substantiates the derivation from dol (valley, in Slovenian). The root is tol- , with the frequently changement of the consonants d - t, and the forming suffix -(e)tum,  -(e)edo.
The name Vigo shows a parallel with the Scandinavian vik, which in origin seems to be a Venetic etymon, which also entered the Latin as vicus. In Slovenia, this name was palatalized in Vic (pron. vitch). In the same language, this etymon took on the form vas (meaning a village and its community).
In my opinion, even the name of the well-known Malaga can be explained with help of the Slovenian language. First it was the Phoenician Malaca, very probably a composed etymon mal-aca, i.e., the root mal- and the composing suffix -aca. Considering the frequently changement of the vocals o - a, I find the only explanation in the still existing Slovenian word mol, a derivation of "moleti" (to be prominent), meaning a pier. It must be a Venetic word, which also entered the Italian vocabulary as molo, and appears as well in other languages. I imagine, the present-day quarter Malagueta at one-time formed a natural pier.
In connection with this natural phenomenon, I quote also the name of Cádiz, the Roman Gades, the Arabian Kâdis, and the Phoenician Gadir. It certainly does not mean a "château fortress" (Baedeker, p. 429). I think, in this name we also must consider the root gad-, and the suffix -ir. Further on, considering the frequently changements of the consonants k - g, we can explain this name with kat, meaning even a "pier" in Dalmatian Croatian. But this etymon could have been still a legacy of the pre-Venetic, i.e., of the pre-Indo-European period (before 2000 BC), which I am calling the Afro-European period. It is, because the etymon appears also in the name Agadir (Morocco), which shows the prefix a- and the same root. - Indeed, the problem of pre-historical Spain appears much more complex as one has imagined until now.
  
July 25,  2003
Letter from Carlos Camino
I want to point out some coincidences found in different Spanish cultures and folklore:
1.- "Even the "kozolec" an installation to shelter grain and hey, is to be found in Scandinavia, exactly in the same way as we find it in the Eastern Alps" Jozko Savli
In northern Spain (Galicia, Asturies) you can find similar installations, which have the same function and evolution...some scholars say that they were inherited from the "sueves" (and vandals) who invaded together with the visigoths the Iberian peninsula. The sueves inhabited Pomerania and the Vandals derive from Vendas...We call them "horreos"
2.- "The God Triglav simulacrum had three golden heads" Jozko Savli
In a village of Salamanca was found a three headed stone (not three-faced, but three-headed, which is unique in this part of Europe). Perhaps a Vandalic relic? Or a Ligurian one? "Historians" talk about its celtic origin...
"Dios tricéfalo de la villa de Montemayor (Salamanca)" which means "Three-headed god in Montemayor village (Salamanca)" -  tri>>three - cefalo>>headed - dios>>god
3.- "...Golasecca Culture, whose Venetic inhabitants there probably were the Ligurians" Jozko Savli
The Ligurian are said to be the first civilised inhabitants of northern Spain, with the Basques...they were celticied afterwards. Little is known about them, but Asturies is said to be fundamentally Ligurian, and not celtic. They can also be found toponimic and stone traces in Pyrinees, Catalunya and Balear Islands...
4.-"... the so-called "Kokotwapas" (rooster plucking) or (Hahnrupfen in German) takes place on the marketplace, where the stage of festivities has been erected" Jozko Savli
In Spain many small villages in Asturies and Castilla still celebrate "carrera de gallos" which are identical to the "Hahnrupfen"
5.- "The traditional Vendic costume. No other place has such large "headpiece" as Burg" Jozko Savli
I'm not so sure since in Soria (Castilla- Spain) we have the "Mondidas Tradition" largely studied by famous spanish etnologists like Julio Caro Baroja. In later times a sorian etnologist has placed a photo of the mondidas in his book about "Magik Soria" (even more similar variations to the Vendic costume can be seen inside his book):
6.- "The highlight of "Zapust" is a large procession through town whereby participants carry birch-twig brooms decorated with colorful ribbons." Silke Böttcher
Slovenian "Kukeroi" ,bulgarian "kukeri" have the northern-spanish version in the "Zamarracos" or "Zanfarrones" etc ( Veneti Zamperen?).
7.- "the famous maypole (Maibaum, mlaj) is in fact a Vendic and not a Germanic symbol" Jozko Savli
In Northern Spain we also have the "maypole", which is raised in the first days of May or even in June (St. John holiday). People discuss whether it is of Celtic (beltaine) or ligurian origin (summer solstice). In many places the church christianized it as the "may cross", that is to say, the great pole was changed with a flowered Christian cross.
http://soria-goig.com/Etnologia/pag_0842.htm
http://soria-goig.com/Etnologia/pag_0841.htm
http://www.soriaymas.com/ver.asp?tipo=articulo&id=942
In regards to the "linden tree" , I'm still looking into it, but as  you can see in the above link, the linden ("tilo" in spanish), could have been replaced by the "pine tree" recently in Soria during the Saint John (solsticial) festivals. This is the phrase where they recognise that the pine tree could be a modern support for the solsticial festival in Salduero village:
"Tal vez a la luz de estas consideraciones, podamos buscar una serie de justificaciones de por qué, el pino, tradicionalmente, no servía de soporte a las ofrendas del Ramo."
In Asturies, the "linden tree" is more common, however I could not find traces of festivities that are connected with this tree. Maybe a field research in Asturies should be done, asking the eldest inhabitants of the villages or the ethnologists. I discovered the rural house below, very typical for northern Spain. It was built under a very ancient linden tree, and the valley is full of "horreos" (kozolecs), and from the house, you have a panoramic view to the "Sueve" mountain, maybe related to the "Suebes" who came in the 7th century.
The "horreos" and the linden tree surrounding the house and the green valleys, gives a Slovenian athmosphere to the landscape.
All of these things found, need a further study, as well as many others, like the bull symbol, or the easter eggs, etc., all of them found also in certain regions of Spain.
Carlos Camino, Castilla-Spain
  
July 26, 2003

Dr. Savli's comment: It is true, after so many years of gathering materials for my study concerning the ancient Veneti, published already in 1985, I also discovered some other instances. They indicate, that one of the Venetic migration currents, which after 1200 BC advanced into various parts of Europe, could also have reached the Iberian peninsula. But I could not find further information, also not in the field of nomenclature. So, I could not launch the project for future studies, as I did in the case of the Veneti in Scandinavia (Sweds) and in India (cf. corresponding articles in Forum Veneti Part I).

Neither the Suebi, who were present in north-western Spain still later in the historical period, could have attired my attention to the problem of the Spanish Veneti. They could have been originally a Venetic people, later Celtized, or Celts already in origin. Their name Suebi was already registered by the Romans, and it refers to the people living approximately in today's German province of Schwaben. In this province we still find the linden, i.e., a Venetic tree, and not a Celtic one, which was the oak.

I would be very interested to know, if in Spain the linden still appears as the tree of life in several villages? The similarities with the Venetic culture quoted by our Spanish friend, could be an indice, but it did not find the proper environment to flourish. Some of the cases mentioned in the article about people's culture, like the custom of the rooster plucking, are but a courtesy contribution from Mrs. Dorothea Nittert-Jezovnik, who, on her mother's side is a Lusatian, and who in an unselfish manner takes care of Carantha.